The process of Unlearning

It was once said by Mark Twain, “Education consists mainly of what we have unlearned.”   It seems that this lesser known art of “unlearning” is something that is much needed among believers in Messiah who are serious about reshaping their lives and convictions back to the Scriptural pattern.  I can think of quite a number of areas in which some degree of unlearning is needed and I am sure many more may be added:

  1. We need to unlearn many of the names and titles that we have previously used to refer to, and call on the Name of the Almighty, whereby we have (perhaps unwittingly) shown disrespect and brought the Name above all names to naught (which, in my understanding,  is a direct violation of the Third Commandment).
  2. We need to unlearn the unscriptural customs that we have inherited from “our fathers” like Christmas, Easter, the promotion of Sunday as a substitute for Shabbat and the reverence of the cross symbol as a so-called “essential element” of belief in Y’shua as Messiah.
  3. We need to unlearn certain unscriptural doctrines, like the doctrine of the “Trinity”, the doctrine of “Grace at all costs”, the doctrine of “Eternal heavenly bliss at the moment of death” and the doctrine of the so-called “Rapture”.

Maybe, some of you have a couple of things that you would like to add to this list …

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Robert

Ja, dis ‘n baie moeilike situasie om nou ewe skielik na 40 jaar se kerkbywoning na ‘n “nuwe” G-d te moet bid aan tafel en dit nogal deur die “nuwe” Naam van Sy seun.
Soos ek vir my skoonouers vertel is daar maar min “anders” wat ons nou by ons huis doen as toe ons in die kerk was:-
1. Gebruik die korrekte aanspreekvorm
2. Aanbid nou die ware Messias soos wat die Engel gese^ het Sy Naam sal wees.
3. Sabbat op die korrekte tyd [Aand van 6de dag tot aand van 7de dag]as Rusdag.
4. Ons verstaan nou die opstandingstydperk[3dae EN 3 nagte] Sabbat-aand opstanding.
5. Ons het nou Joodse vriende en besef dat die Messias ‘n Jood was en terugkom as ‘n Jood.[Ek vermoed ‘n Karaite Jood]
6. Die Eind tyd se verskyning is nou vir ons duidelik dmv. die Feesdae van YHVH.
Ag, en dis lekker om met ons mede verstrooide 10 stamme te praat wat nog vasgekeer is in die kerk.
Shalom

Koos du Plessis

Robert, hallo!
En vir ouer mense, 90 plus, is dit besonder moeilik. My eie moeder word nou 98. Aanvanklik het sy met ons redeneer en die Torah as ‘n las gesien. Die Feesdae, og, sy was tog so dankbaar dat sy nie daardie verpligtinge van die Jode in haar lewe te hoef na te gekom het nie. Toe het sy ‘n boekie gelees wat ek geskryf het en dit aandagtig bestudeer. Wonderbaarlik het sy begin om die Allerhoogste in Sy Hebreeuse Naam te begin aanbid. En die feit dat Sy Naam duidelik uitgespel word in “Woord en Getuienis” het dit vir haar nog makliker gemaak. Sy het haar Scofield Bybel weg gepak en lees net “Woord en Getuienis”. Ons besoek haar dikwels op ‘n Shabbat en lees en bestudeer die betrokke Torah porsies wat sy ongelooflik waardeer. Ons hou dan die hele Shabbat by haar in haar woonstelletjie by die oue-tehuis. Vir haar is ‘n iedere en elke dag soos ‘n Shabbat. Ons moedig haar aan om gedurende die weeklikse Bybelstudies wat vir die oues van dae gehou word, die Hebreeuse Naam van Yahweh en van die Messias Yahshua in haar gebede te noem. Op hierdie laat stadium van haar lewe was haar wens onlangs aan haar kleinseun, dat sy wens sy was jonger sodat sy geleentheid kon hê om die Torah te kon doen. Skielik is dit nie meer vir haar ‘n las nie. Skielik is dit ‘n blye daad van gehoorsaamheid om haar liefde teenoor die Messias te wys. Sy wil alles weet van die Feeste, hul betekenis, die rol wat die eerste 4 reeds gespeel het as “dress rehearsals”. Sy het soos ‘n sub A dogtertjie vasgenael gesit en luister na ons vertellings – Yahshua se intog op 10 Aviv op die esel, terwyl die priesters gewag het dat die hoë priester met die uitgesoekte lam vanaf Bethlehem moes terugkeer, toe die priesters verkeerdelik gemeen het dis die hoë priester wat terugkeer toe Yahshua se dissipels begin skreeu “geseënd is Hy wat kom in die Naam van die Allerhoogste!!” en hulle verkeerdelik begin saam skreeu en hul palmtakke geswaai het – tot hulle hul fout agtergekom het.
Oud en jonk, vanoor die hele land is besig om wonderbaarlik op bonatuurlike wyse te antwoord op die Ruach van Yahweh wat hulle in die skaapkraal inroep. Ons kan net die saad saai en op die Ruach Yah, die Ruach Hakodesh, vertrou om water te gee en die saad te laat ontkiem. Mag Sy Shalom julle en julle uitgebreide gesinne oordek.

Robert

Koos, ja ons leef in wonderlike dae:-> Luk 1:17(aov) En hy sal voor Hom uit gaan in die gees en die krag van Elía, om die harte van die vaders terug te bring tot die kinders en die ongehoorsames tot die gesindheid van die regverdiges, om vir die Here ‘n toegeruste volk te berei.
“..om die harte van die vaders terug te bring tot die kinders..”
My moeder van 72 is stoksiel alleen in ‘n ouetehuis in Springs op/aan die Oosrand en ek woon 500km daarvandaan. Ek laai Mp3 klankmodules/preke af op my rekenaar, wat ek in ‘n Amerikaanse Messiaanse Sinagoge gratis kry…> http://www.kehilatariel.org/messages/2010Messages.html . Hierdie preke laai ek dan op ‘n Mp3 spelertjie en my ma speel dan hierdie preke wat op die Mp3 spelertjie is deur haar TV se “audio input” en so luister sy dan daagliks na die Woord en elke dag is ook vir haar ‘n Sabbat. Huidiglik kry ek so 140 preke op die Mp3 spelertjie.
My moeder is al besig om ‘n 2de keer deur die preke te gaan !
Laat weet as jy meer inligting/hulp hiermee wou he^.
Shabat Shalom vir julle.
Robert

Robert

Ja, en voor ek vergeet…>”..the doctrine of “Grace at all costs”..”

Die kerkmense met hul “genade alleen” , loer bietjie hierso waar dit vandaan kom..>
Translation of the Bible
Luther had published his German translation of the New Testament in 1522, and he and his collaborators completed the translation of the Old Testament in 1534, when the whole Bible was published. He continued to work on refining the translation until the end of his life. Others had translated the Bible into German, but Luther tailored his translation to his own doctrine. [b]When he was criticised for inserting the word “alone” after “faith” in Romans 3:28, he replied: “It is my Testament and my translation, and it shall continue to be mine”.[/b]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther
Interesant as mens nou ewe skielik moet self studeer dat jy op al hierdie kerk mites afkom en wie dit geinisieer het in die kerk.
Shalom

Koos du Plessis

To unlearn old habits and usuages and to re-learn the Torah of the Most High – The Torah has become totally relevant for our end time. Am I too legalistic? I am not a sacred namer. But when I look at Exo. 20:2 “I am YHWH your Elohim (god) who has brought you out of the land of Mitzrayim …” (3) “You shall HAVE no other elohim before My face….you shall not bow down to them…” These commands were written by the Creator in the oldest paleo Hebrew, YHWH, with His own Finger on stone tablets!!
These first two commands are connected, amongst others, to HOSEA 13:4 “Yet I am YHWH your Elohim …. but I brought you up from the land of Mitzrayim and you shall know no other elohim but Me: for there is no Savior besides me” WOW! Yahweh tells us that He is the Savior as well, and who else can that be than His Only Son Yahshua?
And in Exo.23:13 the Lawgiver commands us not to mention the names of any other elohim,(gods) neither let it be heard out of your mouth”. Is there anything ambiguous about that directive?
What I understand from these two commands given by the Creator is that He is the only Elohim, He and His Only Son Yahshua, the Savior, who came in the flesh. Further I understand that it is “ILLEGAL” (Torahless/ sin) to even mention the name of any other elohim (gods) if it is not the Name of our Father YHWH or that of His Son Yahshua. These commandments are my directives for using the Hebrew Name of the Creator, as given to us in the Decalogue. The Ten Words, based on the two pillars of Love for YHWH and our neighbour. Each and every one of these Ten Words found in the Torah are our life’s directives. They are our marriage covenant with the Creator. Can I dare to transgress this particular commandment (not to mention the others) by replacing the Name of Yahweh and His Messiah Yahshua,(making it worthless/bringing it to vanity) the Name which He personally has given to us, with that of any other Greek name? A Greek name which after having been transliterated “innocently and accidentally” into a name which sounds phonetically exactly the same as that of a pagan goddess of healing and which forms part of the Greek mythology? THIS IS TOO CLOSE FOR MY COMFORT!! Lucifer is the morning star in Isa. 14:12 while Yahshua our savior is also referred to as the morning star in Rev. 2:28!! Light and darkness so dangerously and misleadingly close together!! Do you think this transliteration is an innocent accident? Can I take the chance to disobey the King’s, the Lawgiver’s exact and precise prescriptions regarding His own personal Name by ignoring them and to call on a Greek god whose name is not even remotely connected to that of Elohim Yahweh and His Messiah Yahshua? The Haitan quake earlier this year was just another of Abba’s wake up calls to His children. We better become more set apart than ever, and more righteous than ever before and more pure in our speech especially when addressing the Creator of the universe and calling on His Set Apart Name! It’s time we understand the full meaning of the 3rd commandment. If we did not know these commandments and what they implied till now, we will be forgiven, BUT if we continue transgressing them and substitute pagan Greek names in the place of our Creator’s Set Apart Name, we will be prosecuted!! And even a Zulu from South Africa and a Chinese from China can pronounce the Name of our Creator beautifully!! Baruch hashem Yahweh and Yahshua!! Am I too dogmatic? After all, The King, personally, wrote His own personal Name in the oldest paleo Hebrew on tablets of stone “I am YAHWEH (YHWH) – (YOD, HEY, VAV, HEY) your Elohim (mighty one), who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery” and “there is no saviour beside me.
I really do not want to disobey the Decalogue, the Ten Words, the Living Words of the Most High – it is not negotiable, I think.

Robert

Koos , Dit is interesant dat juis die rede waarom YHVH farao en sy volk lewend gehou het is sodat YHVH se Naam aan die hele aarde bekend moes word dmv. Israel van ouds:-

Die vraag is, waarom wil meeste “gelowiges” nie YHVH se naam gebruik nie, maar eerder afgode se naam/e?

Exo 9:16(cjb) But it is for this very reason that I have kept you alive -to show you my power, and so that my name may resound throughout the whole earth.

Exo 9:16(The Scriptures 1998+) “And for this reason I have raised you up, in order to show you My power, and in order to declare My Name in all the earth.

Exo 9:16(HNV) but indeed for this cause I have made you stand: to show you my power, and that my name may be declared throughout all the earth;

Exo 9:16(AOV) maar juis hierom het Ek jou nog laat bestaan, dat Ek jou my krag kan toon, en dat hulle my Naam op die hele aarde kan verkondig.

Robert

John, of sal ek jou Yahuchanan noem ? , Ja, ek het nog nooit kon “uitfigure” waarom ons moet weet “waaruit” YHVH bestaan nie, waar kom dit vandaan dat ons klein, nietige mensies so ‘n groot taak kan aanpak ?

Dis vir my genoeg om te weet dat daar ‘n Vader is en dat Hy homself openbaar soos Hy goeddink.

Matt Hendrik Heyns

1. Gebruikers kan die afleiding maak dat die El van die Ou Verbond inderdaad Messias is.

a. Waarom sal ‘n gelowige hierdie afleiding bevraagteken.

2. Kyk gerus 1 Kor 10.

3. Shalom!

Robert

Act 7:45(KJV+) WhichG3739 alsoG2532 ourG2257 fathersG3962 that came afterG1237 brought inG1521 withG3326 JesusG2424 intoG1722 theG3588 possessionG2697 of theG3588 Gentiles,G1484 whomG3739 GodG2316 drave outG1856 beforeG575 the faceG4383 of ourG2257 fathers,G3962 untoG2193 theG3588 daysG2250 of David;G1138

Act 7:45(KJV-1611) Which also our fathers that came after, brought in with Iesus into the possession of the Gentiles, whom God draue out before the face of our fathers, vnto the dayes of Dauid,

Act 7:45(Bishops) Whiche also our fathers that came after, brought in with Iesus into the possession of the gentiles, who God draue out before the face of our fathers, vnto the dayes of Dauid.

Robert

Yahshua FROM Genesis TO Revelation
Indien u die klankmodule sou wou aflaai, hier is die skakel.

Joh 1:1 In die begin was die Woord, en die Woord was by God, en die Woord was God.
Joh 1:2 Hy was in die begin by God.
Joh 1:3 Alle dinge het deur Hom ontstaan, en sonder Hom het nie een ding ontstaan wat ontstaan het nie.

Col 1:15 Hy is die Beeld van die onsienlike God, die Eersgeborene van die hele skepping;
Col 1:16 want in Hom is alle dinge geskape wat in die hemele en op die aarde is, wat sienlik en onsienlik is, trone sowel as heerskappye en owerhede en magte—alle dinge is deur Hom en tot Hom geskape.
Col 1:17 En Hy is voor alle dinge, en in Hom hou alle dinge stand.

Joh 8:57 Toe sê die Jode vir Hom: U is nog nie vyftig jaar oud nie, en het U Abraham gesien?
Joh 8:58 Jesus sê vir hulle: Voorwaar, voorwaar Ek sê vir julle, voordat Abraham was, is Ek.

Joh 10:30 Ek en die Vader is een.

Joh 5:46 Maar as julle Moses geglo het, sou julle My glo, want hy het van My geskrywe.
Joh 5:47 En as julle sy geskrifte[die wet] nie glo nie, hoe sal julle my woorde glo?

Joh 8:24(HNV) I said therefore to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am [he], you will die in your sins.”
Joh 8:24(MRC) “I said therefore to you, that you would die in your sins; for if you do not believe I am [He], you will die in your sins.”
(KJV+) I saidG2036 thereforeG3767 unto you,G5213 thatG3754 ye shall dieG599 inG1722 yourG5216 sins:G266 forG1063 ifG1437 ye believeG4100 notG3361 thatG3754 IG1473 amG1510 [he], ye shall dieG599 inG1722 yourG5216 sins.G266

Isa 45:23 Ek sweer by Myself; geregtigheid gaan uit my mond, ‘n woord wat nie herroep word nie: dat voor My elke knie sal neerbuig, by My elke tong sal sweer.
Php 2:10 sodat in die Naam van Jesus sou buig elke knie van die wat in die hemel en die wat op die aarde en die wat onder die aarde is,
Php 2:11 en elke tong sou bely dat Jesus Christus die Here is tot heerlikheid van God die Vader.

Robert

“..dat ons almal eerlik genoeg sal wees om ons Drie-eenheids-”bril” af te haal..”
Sjoe , John nou laat jy my ook soos “almal” voel, ek hoop nie ek het onwetend op jou tone getrap met iets wat ek “gepost” het nie.
Kan jy miskien bietjie meer spesifiek wees ?
Shalom

Robert

Dankie tog John ! :smile:

Ja, Die ding van is een isgelykaan 3

As dit mens deurmekaar maak, wag tot jy by “faktorisasie” uitkom met wiskunde !

Het jy al gehoor dat ENIGE-IETS tot die mag 0 isgelykaan 1 ?

Ek woder wat sal die kerklikes doen met bogenoemde stelling? http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_is_anything_to_the_power_zero_one

Waarom is dit vir ons aanvaarbaar in die wiskunde klas om die instrukteur net te glo maar as iets in die Bybel verskyn wil ons dit “verstaan”

Ek meen het jy al ooit die grawitasie versnellings konstante bevraagteken of gebruik jy die konstante net deur onvragend dit in die formule in te vul ?

Dis waarom dit vir my maklik is om net te aanvaar dat G_d ook so ‘n “konstante” is dat wanneer my bybel se^ dat daar ‘n verskyning van die vuurkolom voor die Volk uitgetrek het in die aand, dan vul ek net die “konstante” daar in.[al gehoor van G_d verander nooit]maw. “konstante”.

Soos ‘n kind , soos ‘n kind in die wiskunde klas, moet ons ons Bybels in die Bybelklas lees

Shalom

Robert

Vir enige wat nog nie die konsep verstaan dat Yahshua isgelykaan en deel van YHVH nie, wil ek voorstel om hierdie klankmodules af te laai en te bestudeer [die klankgehalte is uitstekend]:-

Session 1
Session 2
Session 3

Net so ter interesantheid oor ondergenoemde verse uit die Tyndale Bybel, is dat William Tyndale eers verwurg is en toe verbrand is op die brandstapel omdat hy geweier het om in die HEEL EERSTE Engels vertaalde “nuwe testament” woorde “in te vertaal” wat nie daar gehoort het nie.http://william-tyndale.com/ . Hy het onder andere geweier om die woordjie “kerk” in die bybel in te vertaal waar eintlik “assembly” moes staan en daarvoor was die regering/koning uiters kwaad vir William.
Laai vir jou/julle ‘n searchable database William Tyndale nuwe testament af en soek dan na die woorde “church” en “churche”, om te sien dat die woord net verwys na Diana se heidense tempel.

1Jn 5:7(Tyndale) (For ther are thre which beare recorde in heuen the father the worde and the wholy goost. And these thre are one)
1Jn 5:8(Tyndale) For there are thre which beare recorde (in erth:) the sprete and water and bloud: and these thre are one.

Shalom

Robert

John, ja, jy skryf…>
“…Ter illustrasie, een van die gedeeltes wat Robert aangehaal het is Joh 8:24(HNV) “I said therefore to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am [he], you will die in your sins”. Interessant dat hierdie vertaling, en ‘n paar ander waarvan ek weet, hier die woord [he] in hakies plaas. Met ander woorde, dit staan nie regtig in die teks nie. In die teks staan daar net twee woorde, die woorde “ego eimi” – letterlik vertaal, beteken dit: “ek is”…”

Exo 3:14(MRC)(The Scriptures 1998+) And Elohim said to Mosheh, “I am that which I am.”1 And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Yisra’?l, ‘I am has sent me to you.’ ” ***Footnote: 1The Heb?rew text reads: ’eyeh ’asher ’eyeh, the word ’eyeh being derived from hayah which means to be, to exist, but the Aramaic text here in v. 14 reads: ayah ashar ayah. This is not His Name, but it is an explanation that leads up to the revelation of His Name in v. 15, namely: ????.***

“…Vertalings soos die HNV (hierbo) wil ons laat glo dat Y’shua hier vir die Jode gesê het: “Ek is Yahweh”…”

John,.. En indien ons dit van die Aramaic/Arameese teks benader?

Robert

John, Moet my nie verkeerd verstaan nie, ek is ‘n voorstaander vir die konsep van..> Deu 6:4 (cjb)”Sh’ma, Yisra’el! ADONAI Eloheinu, ADONAI echad [Hear, Isra’el! ADONAI our God, ADONAI is one];

En wil nie myself voordoen als ‘n geleerde nie, want ek is nie en wil daarom vra dat jy met ‘n oop gemoed hierdie module aflaai en luister…>

http://www.waytozion.org/teachings/eddie/Session1.mp3

Ons is mos hier om by mekaar te leer eerder as om te argumenteer oor heidense[kerk] sienswyses wat ons die rug gekeer het op? Dis soos om nou te wil argumenteer oor watse tipe bos ‘n braambel bos is in botanies verstaanbare taal. Of om nou vir almal te wil vertel dat die Bybel nie G_ds-geinspireerd is nie agv. al die foute wat daarin verskyn.

Ek belowe dat daardie module hierbo gegee ‘n mens nogal hard laat dink, of mens nou geleerd is of nie, dis in maklik verstaanbare Engels.

CHRISTAL

JOHN
I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU ON THE SUBJECT OF UNLEARNING. ITS BEEN MY PRAYER WHEN I ENTERED THE ‘REALM OF THE CHRISTIAN WAY OF THINKING. I ASKED FATHER TO UNTEACH ME MANY TIMES, BECAUSE TEACHING I RECEIVED FROM CHURCH PASTORS WERE CONTRADICTING AND CONFUSING. EVEN NOW THERE ARE STILL LIES THAT ARE ‘LITERALLY BOILING’ TO THE SURFACE WITHIN ME FROM MY CHILHOOD.YAHWEH WILL CONTINUE TO EXPOSE THOSE LIES IN ORDER TO SET US FREE FROM THE BONDAGE TO SIN. I AM ALSO ACUTELY AWARE HOW SUBTLE A LIE CAN BE AND HOW IT CAN POLLUTE THE TRUTH AND THAT WE NEED TO BE CONSTANTLY VIGILANT.

Robert

CHRISTAL, You write …>..”THOSE LIES IN ORDER TO SET US FREE FROM THE BONDAGE..”

This bondage was created to keep you in the church in the year 325:-

THE FIRST COUNCIL OF NICEA OF 325:
From the letter of the Emperor (Constantine) to all those not present at the council. (Found in Eusebius, Vita Const., Lib III 18-20)

“…We ought NOT therefore to have anything in common with the Jew, for the Saviour has shown us ANOTHER way; our worship following a more legitimate and more CONVENIENT course (the order of the days of the week: And consequently in unanimously adopting this mode, we desire, dearest brethren to SEPARATE ourselves from the DETESTABLE company of the Jew..”

http://biblehub.com/library/schaff/the_seven_ecumenical_councils/on_the_keeping_of_easter.htm