Torah for today?

There is a perception among many believers that Torah, particularly the do’s and don’ts of the first 5 books of Scriptures, cannot be viewed as normative for our lives today. Torah has served its purpose and is outdated, they say, and should not be used as a guideline for people’s conduct and behaviour in this modern age of ours.  Some of the readers may have heard the tongue in the cheek (but most likely, true) story of Dr. Laura Schlesinger, an observant Orthodox Jew, who stated in her Radio show that homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22, and cannot be condoned under any circumstance.  In response to this, a US resident (who turns out to be an Emeritus Professor at the University of Virginia) wrote an open letter to Dr Laura in which he thanked her for “doing so much to educate people” regarding the law of the Almighty, but stated that he needed some advice regarding a number of other aspects of the Law and how to follow this Law in today’s life.  Here are some of the specific questions that he had asked, almost with a sarcastic undertone, in a humoristically naive manner: 

  1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians?
  2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
  3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of “menstrual uncleanliness” (Lev.15: 19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
  4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Almighty (Lev.1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
  5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?
  6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination, (Lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don’t agree. Can you settle this? Are there “degrees” of abomination?
  7. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?
  8. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton and polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev.24:10-16.) Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14.)

He then concluded by saying: “I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I’m confident you can help.” He finally thanked her for reminding people that these laws are “eternal and unchanging” and said he was an “adoring fan” of hers.

Clearly, the idea behind this open letter is that it is ridiculous to keep a certain portion of Torah while everyone realises that there are certain (other) aspects of Torah that are impossible to keep in a changed world. 

But is this reasoning correct? Do we have Scriptural support for such a conclusion? Should we not acknowledge wisely that there are certain aspects of Torah that are not meant to be performed literally in our day, but still keep those commandments that we can – not as a means to earn our salvation, but as a recognition of the fact that the One who gave the Torah in the first place, had done so with abundant wisdom and perfect knowledge of such principles as compassion, righteousness, faithfulness and truth? 

What do you think? 

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32 Responses to Torah for today?

  1. Matt Hendrik Heyns says:

    1. What does Yahweh approve and what does He not approve if He says that:
    a. sin is the transgression of the law; and
    b. we earn a penalty if we break the law.
    4. Shalom!

    • John says:

      Matt, I am sure Yahweh approved when the early Messianic apostles (under leadership of Ya’acov, but according to their own understanding, also under the guidance of the Spirit of Yahweh) came to a decision (in Acts 15) that newly converted believers from a non-Jewish background should not be burdened with all kinds of ritual requirements of the Torah. The context of the book of Acts shows that this was not an escape route of neglecting or abandoning Torah, but a clear indication that certain (of the typical ceremonial and wilderness related) aspects of Torah were not primarily aimed at the unique situation when people from the nations of the earth would come to belief in the testimony of Y’shua and would join local assemblies, all of whom still had a keen desire to serve and honour Yahweh and his Word.

      • Robert says:

        John
        Ek hou daarvan om op forums aan Christene uit te wys dat ons wat vanuit die heidene aangesluit het eintlik…>Act 15:21 For from the earliest times, Moshe has had in every city those who proclaim him, with his words being read in the synagogues every Shabbat.”
        Dus ons is/was veronderstel om in Sinagoges en nie kerke nie te vergader om so Moses[eerste 5 boeke] aan te leer.
        Shalom

  2. Robert says:

    “..homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22..”
    Ja, dit is so, maar ek vind vanoggend ‘n “snaakse” bybelvers….>
    (KJV-1611) I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shal be taken, the other shall be left.
    Twee mans in een bed ?
    Wil iemand my help hier asseblief.
    Shalom
    Robert

  3. Koos du Plessis says:

    It is so sad when people make comments like those in the article. Nobody cares anymore for the Living Words, that Stephen referred to in Acts 7 as the Torah. These Words are Spirit and they are Life. And sadly most of us do not really know the Scriptures as the Messiah reminded us. We also do not know the power of Elohim. “Jy mag nie die vleis van die lammetjie in sy ma se melk kook nie” (geparafraseer) Nou wat de dinges beteken dit eintlik? Nou onlangs eers het ek verneem dat die eenvoudigste skaapwagters van vroeër geweet het wat dit beteken. Nehemiah Gordon beduie dat dit dood gewoon beteken het dat jy nie jou kinders aan afgode moes offer of hulle deur die vuur laat gaan het nie. Something to that effect. There are many instructions in Torah which we do not understand. But those we do understand, or think we understand, I believe that we have to do them to the best of our ability. The King has given them for a reason and one of these days we will find out why. The world reject His Torah, because the doers of the Torah are set apart from other nations and from the rest of the world. To do Torah is to be free to show your love to Yahshua, that you love Him with all of your being. It is so true! Sin is the transgression of the Torah and when I personally keep the Torah to the best of my ability, I do not sin. But if somehow I do break Torah, I have 1 John 1:9 that ensures me that Yahshua our Messiah cleanses me from my transgression. Forgive the longwindedness.

  4. Koos du Plessis says:

    Allow me another comment. To wear or not to wear tzitzit. Why do I want to wear these tazzles? Num. 15:37-41. In summer time it can be embarrassing. Everyone sees you as a freak. In winter time the tazzles are mostly covered by a jersey or jacket. YHWH instructs Mosheh to tell the children of Israel that they are to wear these tzitzit on the 4 corners of their garments – why? so that they would look upon it and remember all the instructions of YHWH, and do them: and “that you seek not after your own heart and your own eyes, which you used to go whoring!!! That you may remember and do all My commandments and be kadosh to your Elohim.” You might probably disagree with me, but I feel that this particular instruction is left for the individual’s own personal choice. There is no obligation on any believer to literally follow this command BUT why would one not follow it? These tzitzits are wonderful means to open up ways to testify to unbelievers or Ephraimites (christians). Sadly our experience in the past has been that many so-called believers blame one as having become too “Jewish” and then they fall away and leave the congregation. I have met an 87 year old gentleman last weekend and when he saw our tzitzit he begged my wife to make him long ones for everyone to see so that he would have ample opportunity to witness. This aged man has come to the truths of Torah and Yahshua late in his life – Torah is not only for a younger generation – even really old people start to repent/teshuvah. I know of a 97 year old lady in an old age home who has recently started to call the Father and also His Son on His Set Apart Hebrew Name. Her comment to one of her grand children was that she wished she were younger to really have been able to DO Torah, contrary to her previous oulook that Torah was a burden. Torah is the Living Words of YHWH and our Messiah Yahshua was and is the Living Torah. Ps.103:20 tells me that the heavenly messengers in heaven do His commandments and listen to the voice of His word (Yahshua). But apart from using them to witness to others, THEY REMIND us to keep and do His commandments, not to go whoring after our own fleshly lusts!! Praise YHWH our Father and Messiah Yahshua, for they knew exactly why each and every mitzvoth/ commandment was given to our fore-fathers.

  5. John says:

    Robert, die vertalers van die KJV was dalk maar net so bietjie aspris, of so nie, totaal onsensitief oor die misleidende boodskap wat só ‘n vertaling kan uitstuur in ‘n wêreld wat sedertdien baie meer fyngevoelig vir hierdie soort ding geword het. Jy kan egter gerus wees: In die Griekse teks kom die woord “men” of “mans” glad nie voor nie – daar staan bloot: “twee sal op een bed wees …”.

  6. Rob H says:

    What part of …”If you love me keep my commands …” is so difficult to understand and apply.

    The secular song got it right when it said “love is not a feeling …it is an act of the will …”

    So if we love him (The Almighty)… Show him, and the world, that we DO !

    Rob
    Durban

    • Robert says:

      Hallo Rob H van Durban, ja ek wil graag aansluit by wat jy se^ dat redding nie net “geloof alleen” is nie want in die olamhaba is daar mos krone as “reward” en hoe will ek krone verdien deur net te “glo” soos die meeste kerkgangers ons wil laat verstaan?
      shalom

  7. Robert says:

    Ja, hoe nou gemaak? Ek het die kerk verlaat en nou is my gesin se “sense of belonging” weg. Nie alleen is ons nou buitestaanders in ons gemeenskap nie maar ondervind nou ook dat ons nie weet hoe om hierdie “nuwe” G_d te aanbid en te gehoorsaam nie !
    Toe word ons gelei na webtuistes soos Elim en lateraan word ons gelei om te soek na hierdie groep waarvan ons Messias in die G_ds-geinspireerde Woord na verwys:-
    Mat 15:24(aov) Maar Hy antwoord en sê: Ek is NET gestuur na die verlore skape van die huis van Israel.
    Dan kom die vraag,.> Wie is hierdie groep, en behoort ek/ons dalk aan hulle?
    As/indien u wil weet wat ‘n Rabbi oor die 613 wette te se^ het gaan laai dan hierdie klankmodule uit Israel af op u rekenaar..> http://www.archive.org/download/KolHator_131/RabbiFeld4-Complete32Bit_64kb.mp3 Hierdie Rabbi verduidelik hoe ons wat vanaf die “gentiles” kom , die Torah behoort te volg.
    Ons as gesin het ontdek dat ons “sojourners” by/in YHVH se volk is, nadat ons uit “Egipte” [die kerk] uitgelei is.
    Ons probeer nie om “die Jode” te vervang of in detail na te aap nie maar besef dat ons nou onder dieselfde stel reels as YHVH se volk moet handel.

    • John says:

      Robert, ek dink daar is baie gelowiges in Suid Afrika wat met jou en jou gesin kan identifiseer. Hierdie “sense of belonging” waarvan jy praat is iets waarsonder ons as mense nie maklik oor die weg kan kom nie. En die harde werklikheid is dat daar al hoe meer opregte en soekende gelowiges is wat nie verder kans sien om in ‘n omgewing te aanbid waar daar op die lange duur meer vrae as antwoorde ontstaan nie. Ek hoop dat ons deur ‘n gespreksmedium soos hierdie, mekaar kan help om mede “sojourners” te ontmoet en by mekaar kan kers opsteek oor wat opbouend en leersaam en Skrifgetrou is, en wat nie. Die goeie nuus is dat hierdie groep gelowiges op ‘n daaglikse basis groter word en dat ‘n mens werklik ‘n herhaling kan sien van dit wat in die Handelinge tyd gebeur het: “En die woord van Elohiem het toegeneem, en die getal van die dissipels het in Yerushalayiem baie vermeerder, en ‘n groot menigte van priesters het gehoorsaam geword aan die geloof” (Hand 6:7). Ek is net nie seker of hierdie groep gelowiges vandag so “in guns by die hele volk” is (Hand 2:47) soos wat dit vir my lyk dit tóé (minstens vir ‘n kort rukkie) die geval was nie!

  8. Robert says:

    Dankie vir jou bemoediging John. Ek gesels vanmore met my stiefpa oor hul/sy bree pad maar dis net onmoontlik om iemand wat nie bestem is vir “ons” pad se oee oop te maak vir wat en wie die WARE Messias is nie..> Hieronder is vier verse wat ek aan hom voorgehou het uit die “nuwe testament” :-
    Joh 4:9 En die Samaritaanse vrou sê vir Hom: Hoe is dit dat U wat ‘n Jood is,…
    Joh 4:22 Julle aanbid wat julle nie weet nie; ons aanbid wat ons weet, want die SALIGHEID/[REDDING] is uit die Jode.
    Act 22:3 Ek is ‘n Jood, gebore in Tarsus in Cilícië…
    Die ergste van alles is as jy vir christene uitwys wat die WARE Messias in..>
    Mat 15:24 Maar Hy antwoord en sê: Ek is net gestuur na die verlore skape van die huis van Israel.
    Christene wil om die dood nie hierdie woorde aanvaar nie, want dit sou beteken dat die kerk verkeerd is !
    Ek vra dan ook aan my christen vamilie dat as hierdie Joodse Messias terugkom met Sy tweede koms of hulle[christene] Hom gaan wil “convert” na christianity want dis mos wat die kerk hulle[christene] leer dat/wat hulle met Jode moet doen !
    Nouja, ek is baie hartseer dat ek nie meer van my vamilie se oee met die saad kan laat oopgaan nie maar besef dat daar vir almal van ons ‘n pad is om te loop en nie almal kan op die nou pad pas nie want wie gaan deur die groot-verdrukking moet gaan as almal se oee ewe skielik oopgaan ?
    Shalom

  9. Johan Kriel says:

    Om Torah gehoorsaam te leef is soos om met jou motor in die aand te ry. Jy het die aanwysings om by jou bestemming te kom, maar jy sien net so ver as wat jou kar se ligte skyn. Jy ry in geloof, want die Een wat die aanwysings gegee het kan ten volle vertrou word. Jy weet dat jou bestemming is waar jy wil wees en jy weet met elke kilometer agter die rug is jy nader aan jou bestemming. In die proses moet ons egter onthou wat iemand onlangs geskryf het: He gave His people a choice, but so many turned their backs on His Word (Torah), yet on the other hand, some have “kept” the Law so “perfectly” in their own eyes they became engulfed in pride, and say they need not a Saviour. Where is the humility, the humbleness, the broken hearted, the meek (teachable) who are calling, out and seeking His Truth? For Yahshua Himself said that unless we come to Him as a little child to His Word we have no hope of entering His Promised soon coming Kingdom. Op ons “reis” het ons altyd ‘n Verlosser nodig.

    • Robert says:

      Johan K ,ja ..> “..For Yahshua Himself said that unless we come to Him as a little child to His Word[Torah]..” Dis nogal interesant hierdie ding van “soos ‘n kind na die Woord[Torah]”…..My vraag is altyd aan “geleerdes/priesters”,.> hoe lees ‘n kind die Bybel verse? Vergeesterlik die kind die verse soos wat meeste kerklikes wil he^ ons moet doen? Of lees ‘n kind die Torah “literally” ?
      Verder,skryf jy..>”..we have no hope of entering His Promised soon coming Kingdom…” Nou vra ek aan “geleerdes/priesters”,.> Waarnatoe moet hierdie Koninkryk kom? Joburg of Kaapstad miskien Randburg? Nee, hierdie komende Koninkryk kom Israel toe en meer spesifiek Jerusalem ! Met Yahshua wat regeer oor ALMAL as Joodse Koning.

  10. Robert says:

    “..In die proses moet ons egter onthou wat iemand onlangs geskryf het: He gave His people a choice, but so many turned their backs on His Word (Torah), yet on the other hand, some have “kept” the Law so “perfectly” in their own eyes they became engulfed in pride, and say they need not a Saviour..”

    Het die “Jode/Judah” werklik ‘n “savior” nodig? Kyk wat se instruksies is aan hulle gegee:-

    Exo 23:13 “Pay attention to everything I have said to you; do not invoke the names of other gods or even let them be heard crossing your lips..
    Deu 6:14 You are NOT to follow other gods, chosen from the gods of the peoples around you..
    Deu 11:16 But be careful not to let yourselves be seduced, so that you turn aside, serving other gods and worshipping them..
    Deu 11:28 and the curse, if you don’t listen to the mitzvot of ADONAI your God, but turn aside from the way I am ordering you today and follow OTHER GODS THAT YOU HAVE NOT KNOWN.
    Deu 13:1 “If a prophet or someone who gets messages while dreaming arises among you and he gives you a sign or wonder,
    Deu 13:2 and the sign or wonder comes about as he predicted when he said, ‘Let’s follow other gods, WHICH YOU HAVE NOT KNOWN; and let us serve them,’
    Deu 13:3 YOU ARE NOT TO LISTEN TO WHAT THAT PROPHET OR DREAMER SAYS. For ADONAI your God IS TESTING YOU, in order to find out whether you really do love ADONAI your God with all your heart and being.

    Was Yahshua aan die “ou Volk” bekend in die Torah? Of laat ek bietjie “refrase”..> Was die “nuwe testament” geskryf gedurend Yahshua se wandel hier op aarde, of was daar net die geskrewe Torah?

    Nou hoe kan mens verwag dat ‘n/die groep wat aan bewind gestel is om die Torah op te pas sodat ek en die volgende Christen die Woord in ons huise mag he^, ANDER GODE moet aanvaar? [Dit sluit Yahshua in]

    Dit maak mos nie sin dat as YHVH hulle[die Jode] se oee gesluier het dat ek nou TEEN YHVH se wil, die Jode se oee wil open nie ?

    Hos 1:7 But I will pity the house of Y’hudah[die Jode]; I will save them not by bow, sword, battle, horses or cavalry, but by ADONAI THEIR God.”

    Let op hierbo dat YHVH die Jode dmv. HULLE G_d [YHVH] sal red en NIE deur Yahshua, die huis van Israel se G_d NIE.

    Vra uself af aan wie die Jode by die klaagmuur bid? Bid hulle nie tot YHVH nie ?
    Indien christene dan se^ dat G_d “drie-enig” is, dan bid die Jode mos volgens hierdie christen beginsel van “drie-enigheid” tot “jesus” ? Nou waarom dan teen YHVH se wil hierdie Jode aan ‘n ander G_d bekend wil stel ?

  11. Koos says:

    Robert, Dwarsdeur die Torah (1ste vyf boeke) word daar verwys na HOM wie moet kom. Yahshua sê dan self Moses het van My geskryf. Wanneer ons die Torah, ook veral tematies begin lees en begin verstaan, dan is die Messias Yahshua lewensgroot dwarsdeur binne die ou verbond.
    YAHWEH vertel self deur Sy profete dat Hy is die enigste Verlosser (Yahshua). Yahshua die Messias loop letterlik regdeur vanaf Genesis tot in Openbaring.
    Die ortodokse Jode KAN NIE ontken dat hulle nie geweet het nie.
    Yahshua is die enigste MIDDELAAR tussen ons Vader Elohim YAHWEH en die mens.

    As iemand Yahshua verwerp, verwerp hy YHWH. As jy die Torah verwerp, verwerp jy Yahshua, die lewende Torah. Het ons Messias nie gesê “Wie My haat, haat ook My Vader nie”? Dis baie ernstig en wesenlik.

    Ek het aanvanklik ook gedink, hulle is “veilig” want hulle aanbid YHWH, maar dit is nie wat Yahshua sê nie.
    Ander vraag “Hoekom wil hulle nie Yahshua aanvaar en in Hom glo tenspyte van soveel bewyse in die ou verbond nie?” Hier stop ek.

    • Robert says:

      Koos, ja, kom ons bekyk die “conversion” van Jode/Judah VANUIT ‘n Hebreuse oogpunt:-

      Die Jode/Judah tot vandagtoe ken/besit net die Tanakh[ou testament] en hulle besit nie ‘n “Nuwe Testament” nie.
      vraag: Verskyn die woord Yahshua/jesus in die Tanakh? …> Nee.
      vraag: Het jy al ooit[ek glo jy het] na die omskrywing van die Messias wat die Jode/Judah verwag, wat moet kom, gekyk/gelees?:->

      The Mashiach:->…… http://www.jewfaq.org/mashiach.htm
      The mashiach will be a great political leader descended from King David (Jeremiah 23:5). The mashiach is often referred to as “mashiach ben David” (mashiach, son of David). He will be well-versed in Jewish law, and observant of its commandments (Isaiah 11:2-5). He will be a charismatic leader, inspiring others to follow his example. He will be a great military leader, who will win battles for Israel. He will be a great judge, who makes righteous decisions (Jeremiah 33:15). But above all, he will be a human being, not a god, demi-god or other supernatural being.

      What Will the Mashiach Do?
      Before the time of the mashiach, there shall be war and suffering (Ezekiel 38:16)
      The mashiach will bring about the political and spiritual redemption of the Jewish people by bringing us back to Israel and restoring Jerusalem (Isaiah 11:11-12; Jeremiah 23:8; 30:3; Hosea 3:4-5). He will establish a government in Israel that will be the center of all world government, both for Jews and gentiles (Isaiah 2:2-4; 11:10; 42:1). He will rebuild the Temple and re-establish its worship (Jeremiah 33:18). He will restore the religious court system of Israel and establish Jewish law as the law of the land (Jeremiah 33:15).
      http://www.jewfaq.org/mashiach.htm

      Ek glo indien ons die bogenoemde definisies van die Hebreuse oogpunt af bekyk dan val selfs die tyd van Yahshua se eerste koms buite die aanvaarbare omskrywing.

      Ek is jammer, maar die waarskuwings wat die Jode/Judah in hul Torah het is vir my genoegsaam as waarskuwing aan myself wat nou ook die Hebrew Roots begin opvolg/nasteef om te sien dat ek nie moet peuter met wat YHVH so gewil het nie.

  12. Koos says:

    Een ding wat ek nie kan begryp nie. Vat ‘n Jood soos Nehemiah Gordon. Torah geleerd. Hy skryf ‘n boek oor die Joodse Yahshua en die Griekse j-sus. Hy kom tot die gevolgtrekking dat die Joodse Yahshua ‘n Torah gehoorsame Rabbi was. Dit is juis die groot beswaar van die ortodokse Jode dat die Griekse j-sus die Torah gebreek het. Vir Nehemiah val daardie beswaar nou weg. (Hulle glo glad nie aan die nuwe testamentiese geskrifte nie – die Karaites nie)Maar intussen het hy die Hebreeuse vertaling van Matteus onder oë gehad. Hy het mos nie nou meer ‘n beswaar nie of ‘n rede om nie in die Messias Yahshua te glo nie? Maar die Messias het self gesê as jy My verwerp, verwerp jy die Vader. Ek parafraseer uiteraard na aanleiding van “Wie my haat, haat ook die Vader” – kan nie nou op die Skrif kom nie.

    Dit maak nie vir my sin nie. En tog verneem ek is daar meer as 40% van die ortodokse Joodse Rabbis in Israel wat inderdaad in die kas is. Hulle glo in die Messias Yahshua as die Messias wat sou kom, maar hulle hou dit nog op hierdie stadium stil.

    Daar is blykbaar 15000 Messiaanse Jode in Israel wat vervolging deurmaak wanneer dit bekend word dat hulle Messias Yahshua aanhang, dis nie maklik vir hulle nie. Dit is ‘n geringe persentasietjie gesien die huidige bevolking van om en by 6/7 miljoen mense in Israel.
    So daar is ortodokse Jode wat glo in Yahshua. Dan het diegene wat teen die muur staan en bid, mos nie ‘n verskoning nie.

    • Robert says:

      Koos, ja, Ek en my gesin volg Nehemiah Gordon se bepaling van die Feesdatums[ http://www.karaite-korner.org/holiday_dates.shtml ] , maar nie die Ortodokse Jode/Judah[Hillel] se datums wat mens voor in jou dagboek kry nie.
      Ek het ook sy DVD genaamd “hebrew Yeshua vs Greek jesus”
      Hier is my vraag tov. jou plasing “een ding”:-
      Hoeveel christene weet van G_d die Vader maar bid tot jesu.
      Jy en ek weet hoe verkeerd die christen pad is maar ten spyte hiervan wil ons nogsteeds aandring dat Jode/Judah na daardie verkeerde pad moet kom/gelei word?
      En ja daar is ongeveer 120 Messiaanse Sinagoges in Israel.[ http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3939336,00.html ]
      Ek persoonlik laai modules/preke uit n’ SUIWER Messians Joodse Sinagoge in Amerika af vir my moeder en het die link op een van my plasings gegee. Doen julself n’ guns en laai gerus een van Barney Kasdan[SUIWER JOOD]se preke af en ondersoek self soos die Bereans gedoen het of dit “Messiaans genoeg” is, hiers die link weer..>
      http://www.kehilatariel.org/messages/2010Messages.html

  13. Koos says:

    Ja Robert, maar aan die anderkant is daar Torah gedeeltes soos Ps.22 byv. wat so pertinent dui op wat met Yahshua moes gebeur. Duisende jare voor die werklike gebeure.

    Verder was hulle ook maar self riskant kortsigtig want die ortodokse Jode het byv. verbied dat Jes.53 in die sinagoges gelees mag word. Dit is wesenlike Skrif wat daarop dui dat die Messias ‘n twee-ledige rol sou vervul, die een as dienende kneg.

    Daar is ‘n jong ‘rabbi’ wat in sy Torah porsies tematies uitwys hoe presies die Torah op Yahshua wys. Sy leringe is baie baie uitstekend. Tony Robinson met webtuiste http:/restorationoftorah.org.
    Al wat hy doen, hy konnekteer tematiese Skrifgedeeltes en dit is WOW!

    En dan laastens – vertalings!! Die Hebreeus is duidelik. Vat maar weereens Restoration Scriptures en spesifiek Gen.49:18 “I have waited for Your Yahshua, O YHWH”

    Dwarsdeur die ou verbond kom die term “verlossing” voor – yeshua/yashua – dit is nie net ‘n vae begrip/konsep nie, dit is inderdaad die naam van ‘n Persoon – die Naam van Sy Seun Yahshua. Die Hebreeussprekendes moes dit beslis raak gelees het, want ons vind wel diegene onder die ortodokses wat in Hom glo en Sy Torah steeds doen.

    So ja, wat my betrokke vertaling betref, verskyn die term “yahshua” beslis kort kort.
    Byv. ek dink vinnig aan Jes.12:2: “See El is my Yahshua; I wil trust and will not be afraid: for
    Yah-YHWH is my strength and my Shir; He also has become my Yahshua”
    Koniukovsky se kommentaar hier is: “There are those who falsely claim that Yahshua’s Name as Savior, or as Israel’s salvation, is found nowhere in Tanach. Yet here in the actual Hebrew it reads, “YHWH my strength, and my song, has become my Yahshua”.

    En die finale sê is immers die van Yahshua self as Hy sê “Search the Keetvay HaKodosh: for in them you think you have eternal chaim: and these are those, which testify of Me” Joh.5:39.

    En Hy bekragtig dit in vers 46 “For had you believed Moshe, you would have believed Me: for he wrote of Me”.
    Yahshua het geweet waarvan Hy praat.

    Ek kon dit aanvanklik ook nie verstaan nie. Ek kon nie begryp hoe en waar nie. Ek soek, maar kry net enkele gedeeltes wat moontlik op die Messies kon dui.

    Toe raak ek deurmekruis met Tony Robinson, ‘n 35 jarige jongman wat my seun kon gewees het. Toe ek sy tematiese konnotasies begin bestudeer, toe gaan my oë oop en ek begin te verstaan. En ek is nog steeds besig om te begin verstaan! Yahshua die Messias is lewensgroot deurweef in die ganse Torah, die profete. Selfs baie van die idiome in die hernieude verbond kom uit Spreuke uit. Die “Onse Vader” gebed is grootliks gegrond op oa. Spreuke 30:8, 1Kron.29:11, ens. ens. Dit het ek toevallig ontdek gedurende een stiltetyd. En as ek Hebreeus kon lees, sou ek die begrip “yashua” beslis moes raak lees.
    Baie seën vir julle.

    • Robert says:

      Koos, ja, ons is besig met “preaching to the converted” of anners gestel; ek verstaan wat jy tik.

      My agtergrond as opleidingsbeampte[20jaar] in die industrie se^ dat dit onmoontlik is om n’ kleurblinde te leer wat die kleur van n’ robot beteken, want hulle “sien” net eenvoudig gladnie soos ek en jy nie[YHVH het hulle so geskape].
      Het jy al n’ kleurblindheids toets deurgemaak/bygewoon waar seleksie op grond van kleurblindheid gedoen word? Ek belowe jou jy lag jouself kaput vir wat daai ouens “sien” in die kleurkaarte en wat jy nie sien in “hul” kleurkaarte nie.
      Ns. daai Mp3 “resizer” progran is gratis op internet vir aflaai en word genoem “Mp3 Quality Modifier V 1.0-Kevin Schneider”. Gaan na search enjin en vul die inligting in en jy sal dan geneem word waar jy die programmetjie kan aflaai,,> hier is die link..> http://www.inspire-soft.net/?nav=soft_mp3qualitymodifier

  14. Koos says:

    Dankie Robert, daardie “ding”, die MP3 en die resizer program, ek sal die detail afneem en gebruik. Laat ek dit so stel, ek sal delegeer, want as ek dit self moet implementeer, gaan dit chaos wees.
    Shalom Shabbat. Dit begin nou nou.

    Die Shabbat is seker die heerlikste en wonderlikste feesdag. Selfs toe ons aktief in die christendom op s-ndae vergader het, was dit nie naastenby so vervullend, opbouend en “refreshing” soos wat ons die Shabbat beleef nie. Uiteraard is Jes. 58:13 se aanwysings vir ons die standaarde hoe om die Shabbat te onderhou en ELKE keer ervaar ons die wonder van die beloftes van vers 14.

    • Robert says:

      Koos, ja, ek moes hierdie shabbat vir die eerste keer vandat ons shabbat onderhou, willens en wetens die wet oortree en 100km ver ry na tzaneen om my vrou se motortjie se “remote” te laat instel op die vw handelaar se rekenaar. Die motor se komper wou gladnie meer oop of toesluit sonder dat die alarm afgaan nie.

      Gelukkig weet ons wat Yahshua omtrent die put vertel.

  15. Koos says:

    Dit is so absoluut great, die feit dat ons Torah, en oa. die Shabbat in vryheid onderhou. Ofskoon Jes.58:13 vir my ‘n riglyn is, kyk Yahshua altyd na ons hartsgesindheid. En Wie ken ons harte beter as Hy, die Skepper en Vernuwer van ons harte en lewens? Nee, dis heerlik en bevrydend om die Torah te doen. As ek gelei word om die ou blinde omie se tuin vir hom op die Shabbat netjies te maak, weet Yahshua wat in my hart aangaan – ek haat tuinwerk, maar ek doen dit dan vir die ou omie juis omdat ek Yahshua lief het.
    En soms is daar wel ‘n kalf in die put en Yahshua ken weereens ons harte. Bevrydend! Ek is so bly ons hou nie die oral law en die ander Joodse menslike reëls en norme nie. Shalom!

  16. John says:

    Koos, ek stem saam dat Jes 58 seker een van die hoofstukke in die hele Skrif is wat die hart en die eintlike bedoeling van die Shabbat die duidelikste verwoord. Soms wonder ek of Jes 58 nie daardie “spesiale” Shabbat, Yom Kippur, in gedagte het nie, met die aanwysings oor watter soort vas Yahweh graag wil sien, wat tussendeur die Shabbat gedagtes verweef is. As dit so is, dan is dit seker nie ‘n slegte idee om Jes 58, juis nóú, minder as drie weke voor Yom Kippur, weer ‘n paar keer deur te lees nie. Om die Shabbat en die feesdae te onderhou is één ding, om dit met die regte gesindheid te onderhou, is heeltemal iets anders – dié les moes Israel (en óns) al oor en oor deur die geskiedenis leer!

  17. Robert says:

    Ja, Koos en John ..Ons sien die shabbat as volkome rusdag en poog om alle inkopies ook voor die shabbat te doen, bly by huis en luister preke/audio oor die “nuwe” pad. Ons het nog nie begin met die “vas” ding nie en wil graag jul mening hieroor he^. Daar is verskillende menings oor vas op Yom Kippur. Hoor graag van julle.

  18. Robert says:

    Lev 23:26 Verder het die HERE met Moses gespreek en gesê:
    Lev 23:27 Maar op die tiende van hierdie sewende maand is dit die versoendag. ‘n Heilige vierdag moet dit vir julle wees; dan moet julle jul verootmoedig en aan die HERE ‘n vuuroffer bring.
    Lev 23:28 En op daardie selfde dag mag julle géén werk doen nie, want dit is ‘n versoendag om vir julle versoening te doen voor die aangesig van die HERE julle God.
    Lev 23:29 Want elkeen wat hom op daardie selfde dag nie verootmoedig nie, moet uit sy volksgenote uitgeroei word.
    Lev 23:30 Ook elkeen wat op daardie selfde dag enige werk doen, dié siel sal Ek uitroei onder sy volk uit.
    Lev 23:31 Julle mag géén werk doen nie; dit is ‘n ewige insetting vir julle geslagte in al julle woonplekke.
    Lev 23:32 ‘n Dag van volkome rus moet dit vir julle wees, en julle moet jul verootmoedig. Op die negende van die maand in die aand, van aand tot aand, moet julle jul sabbat hou.

    “…Lev 23:30 Ook elkeen wat op daardie selfde dag ENIGE werk doen…”
    My vraag is; sit “gelowiges” n’ dag se verlof in by hul werkgewers vir hierdie feesdag? En wat beteken dit om te “vas” en wat doen mense met siekte toestande soos “diabetus/suikersiekte” ?

  19. Matt Heyns says:

    1. Zeus was known as Herros or Heros in the Aeolian dialect. The feminine of this word is Here or Hera. She was the Queen of the Sky and the sister as well as wife of Zeus. In Rome she was known as Juno.
    2. Whether it be the male Her, Herr, Herros, Heros or Heru it all originates from Sun or Sky worship. The Name of our Heavenly Father has been substituted with a so called title. But this title traces back to the name of the Sun deity. Likewise, our Saviour has also been called Herr or Heer. There for, He also became identified with the Sun deity.
    3. The Dutch Heere and the Afrikaanse Here are plurals of Heer. Even if only as a plural “majesty” but they also trace back to the Sun deity Her or Heru.
    a. In its plural form Here is being spelt exactly like the name of the Queen of Heaven.
    4. These words originated as the names of gods and must be avoided at all times.
    5. Shalom!

    • Robert says:

      Matt Heyns, yes and so is using various abreviations like:->
      Adonai, HaShem, Y’shua, jeshu, etc.etc
      I once heard Tovia Singer[Israel National Radio] say that even the Bible mentions various gods by name, are we therefore not to use the bible ?
      Shalom

  20. Robert says:

    John, Jy skryf heel bo-aan hierdie bespreking..> “There is a perception among many believers that Torah, particularly the do’s and don’ts of the first 5 books of Scriptures, cannot be viewed as normative for our lives today..”

    Ek het bietjie gaan inloer by ‘n Ortodoks-Joodse forum oor presies hierdie situasie waar ons wat vanaf die nasies, nou ook wil begin Torah volg en ek wil/wou weet vanaf ‘n Ortodoks-Joodse sienspunt en hieronder plaas ek die gesprek tussen twee persone[met die link] as iemand die volle gesprek wil gaan lees:

    StaceyJ asks:
    The Torah is the WAY the TRUTH and the LIGHT. Why wouldn’t I keep the Torah? That was the second or third jewish person on this forum that has told me I [should not], [do not have to] keep Torah. My CREATOR tells me I should and I have to keep Torah. I keep the Torah that my CREATOR gave me-Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. I know HE gave it to me because it is in my hand right now!

    Sharbano answers:
    One can rightly ask, if you were to keep the commandments, is it done according to Jewish Law or is it done according to one’s own interpretation of the Written Torah. The Written Torah gives little detail on how to observe different commandments. In regards to Shabbat are the 39 Melachot taken into account, or is a person just observing a “day of rest “. If a person is to keep Kosher will they merely abstain from pork and similar prohibitions, or is the separation of dairy and meat taken into account, along with separate utensils and cookware and cleaning. Will a person be willing to have a minimum of two sets of cookware and dishes and utensils. Will the person keep the laws of Niddah, of ritual purity, and rely on the use of a Mikveh.
    These are but a mere few of the questions a person has to consider when undertaking keeping the commandments. A person has to decide whether or not they are keeping the Mitzvot according to Halacha or being left to their own desires. If a person wants to keep according to Halacha then I would suggest the person may as well become Jewish and do it right. If not according to Halacha then what is being accomplished, is but only that which satisfiesone’s own heart.

    Nou wil ek graag vra na gelang van bogenoemde/gegewe;- Watter Halacha[Oral Torah] wil ons volg ? Wil ons, ons eie Halacha[Oral Torah], opstel, of watter “cult”[daar’s min of meer 8], van die oorspronklike “Judaism” wil ons, of dink ons, wil ons volg ?
    Shalom

  21. Robert says:

    Zec 8:23 So sê Yahweh van die leërskare: In daardie dae sal tien man uit al die tale van die nasies die slip van ‘n Yehudiese man gryp en dit vashou en sê: Ons wil met julle saamgaan, want ons het gehoor dat Elohiem met julle is.

    Zec 8:23 So sê die HERE van die leërskare: In dié dae sal tien man uit al die tale van die nasies die slip van ‘n Joodse man gryp en dit vashou en sê: Ons wil met julle saamgaan, want ons het gehoor dat God met julle is.

    Na gelang van bogegewe vra ek dus:-
    ….”Die slip[tzi-tzi], van WATTER JOODSE GELOWIGE/GELOOF is vir ons aanvaarbaar as Torah koshur ?

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